QuoteReplyTopic: Filming police in public, a crime? Posted: 17/June/2009 at 17:19
Hey
Iv seen it several times now, someone filming an arrest in a public place or something and the police will turn on the camera man often with force and removing the phone and deleating what they want. Is it a crime to film police in this manner? If they spot the camera man and order them stop filming is it a crime to continue? Can they give that order at all?
Heres an example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7svwDDwbFU
Video's 7 months old but thats pretty much what I mean.
It is certainly not a crime to film anyone in a public place.
If, however, by your filming, for example, filming quite close, you were to interfere with a police operation in some way, you could be charged with hindering police.
Thus, you could film from a fair distance away without being liable to a criminal sanction.
If the police take property from you without consent they are committing an unlawful act and can be civilly liable.
The tort of conversion is defined as intentionally dealing with goods that is inconsistent with the right to immediate possession. Thus, the police can be sued in conversion.
The police may also be committing a criminal offence by destroying data that is the property of another. You may also be able to sue for the loss of the data, as the film maker holds copyright in the images.
That's an excellent video and I wish you kept filming (or put the rest up). As was said before, yes, you are perfectly within the law to film/photograph in public.
It's pretty easy to tell that you were not obstructing or interfering the police with their duties. Had it been me (being reasonably cognicent with this particular aspect of teh law) I would have continued filming just to prove a point.
This has happened to me before but I was not filming police, I was photographing buildings. Police approached me and asked what I was doing and what my name is/do I have any ID.
I explained what I was doing (photographing buildings for an assignment) and declined to give my name. They threatened me with arrest for failing to give name.
Anyhow I explained to them that because there is no reasonable suspicion that I've committed an offence I do not have to give it to them. They radioed (presumably to check this) and moved on lol.
You are only required to follow lawful orders, although its a xxxxxxen minefield to know what is lawful or not.
I remember a while ago in WA under "Anti-Bikie" laws it was proposed to make it illegal to maintain surveillance or gather intelligence on Police. I'm not sure if this went through.
It is illegal to record or film police any more so than anyone else?
Can someone please provide a reference for the laws that state otherwise as i dont believe that this is the case.
It is illegal to record or film police any more so than anyone else?
Can someone please provide a reference for the laws that state otherwise as i dont believe that this is the case.
As I already said, unless you are a party to the conversation, it is illegal to do this. Checkm out this:
Surveillance Devices Act 2007 (NSW) No 64 As you will see, the laws are written only for those who are not a party to the conversation. In fact, I have audio recordings that I secretly recorded when having conversations with the police to use in court as evidence against them.
Edited by TechSpec - 09/October/2009 at 08:13
BadCop Watch: Australia's most informative website on cops gone bad...
It is certainly not a crime to film anyone in a public place.
If, however, by your filming, for example, filming quite close, you were to interfere with a police operation in some way, you could be charged with hindering police.
Thus, you could film from a fair distance away without being liable to a criminal sanction.
If the police take property from you without consent they are committing an unlawful act and can be civilly liable.
The tort of conversion is defined as intentionally dealing with goods that is inconsistent with the right to immediate possession. Thus, the police can be sued in conversion.
The police may also be committing a criminal offence by destroying data that is the property of another. You may also be able to sue for the loss of the data, as the film maker holds copyright in the images.
This has nothing to do with this:
"The tort of conversion is defined as intentionally dealing with goods that is inconsistent with the right to immediate possession. Thus, the police can be sued in conversion."
Sounds like you have the laws mixed up!
BadCop Watch: Australia's most informative website on cops gone bad...
This has nothing to do with this:
"The tort of conversion is defined as intentionally dealing with goods that is inconsistent with the right to immediate possession. Thus, the police can be sued in conversion."
Sounds like you have the laws mixed up!
If police take a device from you without permission and without legal grounds they have committed the tort of conversion.
It is illegal to record or film police any more so than anyone else?
Can someone please provide a reference for the laws that state otherwise as i dont believe that this is the case.
As I already said, unless you are a party to the conversation, it is illegal to do this. Checkm out this:
Surveillance Devices Act 2007 (NSW) No 64 As you will see, the laws are written only for those who are not a party to the conversation. In fact, I have audio recordings that I secretly recorded when having conversations with the police to use in court as evidence against them.
The issue here is filming not recording the conversation. And even if the conversations between police or between police and others were picked up by the recording device they are only picked up incidentally. In addition, the conversations are hardly private and the police know you are there so they are not secret recordings. News gathering organisations don't get prosecuted under the Surveillance Devices Act for this reason.
"they are only picked up incidentally"
This does not apply if you intentionally point your camera at the cops.
Im also not sure what your saying. I read the act & my understanding is that it prohibits private conversations from being recorded covertly. When the cops are talking to or arresting someone on the street, you could argue both sides as to weather or not it is a private conversation. If police are arresting someone, I wouldnt think that would be private. If police are obtaining details from members of the public (addresses, names, phone numbers etc) then maybe that would be private.
Furthermore, the act allows a person to record private converations that they are a part of if it 'is reasonably necessary for the protection of their lawful interests'.
Furthermore, and most importnantly, the last subsection states that conversations which law enforement officers are in do not apply.
The way I read the act was that when you are talking to police, they could be recording without your consent and you could be recording without theirs.
And lastly, remember that this all is nsw law. Other states, as far as i know are open and free for all.
"Furthermore, the act allows a person to record private converations that they are a part of if it 'is reasonably necessary for the protection of their lawful interests'. "
This comes down to the "definition of private converations". The courts see this one as "If the police are talking to a single person, it is deemed to be private."
"If the police are talking to 2 or more people, it is not private."
Then comes the "party to the conversation part"
You must be a party to the conversation in order to lawfully record such.
And yes, when talking to cops you should always have a recorder "audio" recording at all times. You do not have to ask permission from the police to do this. But everyone should be aware that the police can do this to you too and they usually do!
BadCop Watch: Australia's most informative website on cops gone bad...
Are all directions police give someone a "Police Direction" or do they actually have to tell you its a police direction?
Now, if the police give you a direction, say to turn off a video recording when nothing you are doing is against the law, does that make the actions of the police unlawful?
A police direction must be in the course of his / her normal duties.
Therefore, a cop telling you to stop recording (if you are a party to the conversation) can only be a request.
If you are not a party to the conversation, then a cop telling you to stop recording would be a police direction.
If you are not a party to the conversation and not a journalist, you are breaking the law.
BadCop Watch: Australia's most informative website on cops gone bad...
The law refers to a "private conversation". Presumably someone being arrested who is yelling and having instruction yelled at him is no longer having a private conversation.
With regard to the journalist reference above - what legal rights/powers do journalists have that ordinary citizens do not have? None I would suspect.
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